Clean Waves: Nature's Soundscapes for Productive Workspaces | Fran Board, Marketing Director of Moodsonic

Episode 16: Designing Soundscapes for Workplace Productivity with Fran Board

Welcome to Episode 16 of the OpenWorks Podcast!

In this episode, we explore the fascinating world of soundscaping and how it can transform workplaces into havens of productivity and well-being. Our special guest, Fran Board, Marketing Director at Moodsonic, takes us on a deep dive into the science and art of creating personalized soundscapes that enhance the work environment.

Episode Highlights:

• Understanding Soundscaping: Fran shares her intriguing career path from visual design to her passion for multisensory design. She explains how soundscaping differs from traditional acoustics and noise mitigation, offering a holistic approach to enhancing our auditory environment.
• The Power of Nature Sounds: Discover why nature sounds play a crucial role in soundscaping and how they can be integrated into workspaces to create calming and productive atmospheres. Fran also discusses the trend of biophilic design and its connection to sound.
• Creating Dynamic Soundscapes: Learn about the technology and techniques behind Moodsonic's innovative soundscapes. Fran explains how they use a vast library of nature sounds, layering and adjusting them in real time to suit the environment and activity levels.
• AI and Real-Time Adaptation: Fran sheds light on how AI allows Moodsonic's soundscapes to respond dynamically to changes in the workplace environment, ensuring a seamless and beneficial auditory experience.

Meet Our Guest:

Fran Board has a unique blend of expertise in music, multisensory design, and marketing. With over a decade of experience in soundscaping across industries like retail and healthcare, Fran brings a wealth of knowledge and creativity to Moodsonic. Her enthusiasm for sound's impact on our lives is palpable, making this episode both informative and inspiring.

Explore More:

• Follow us on Social: Stay updated with OpenWorks by following us on social media for more insightful content and updates.
• Explore Moodsonic: Discover how soundscaping can benefit your workspace by visiting Moodsonic's website for more information and resources.

Tune in now to explore how soundscapes can enhance your work environment and boost productivity. Whether you're looking to optimize your office or simply intrigued by the sensory world, this episode offers valuable insights and practical advice.

Connect with Us!
OpenWorks Website: https://www.openworksweb.com/resources 
Moodsonic Website: https://www.moodsonic.com/
Trista Sobeck LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tristasobeck/ 
Fran Board LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/fran-board/

Transcript

Trista (00:00.33)
I'll first ask you, tell me a little bit about yourself and the company.

Fran (00:36.137)
Sure. Would you like to know kind of how I got into the field or like what we do? Sure. Yeah. So I originally studied visual design when I was first starting out, but I have a background in music. My mum's a pianist and a music teacher. And so pretty early on, I got really into this area called multi -sensory design, which as the name suggests is all about how the senses interact in terms of design. You know,

Trista (00:39.718)
Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Fran (01:05.993)
what we see changes what we hear, what we hear changes what we smell, you know, there's all this kind of, we don't experience any sense in isolation. So I got really, really obsessed with this area. And then went on to also study the science of this. Did a really cool master's course called Music, Mind and Brain in London, which was all about sound, the neuroscience of sound, the psychology of sound, essentially how sound affects people. And I've been working in this field for 10 or 15 years now.

And this field is soundscaping. It's not the most well -known field, but


Trista (01:50.366)
Yeah, I was just saying, can you just talk a little bit about the company and so what did you do before you were in, before you were with Moodsonic?

Fran (02:00.945)
I've done some work in retail soundscaping, also soundscaping for transportation hubs as well, airports and places like that. And then for the last couple of years, I've been working at Moodsonic, where we specialize in soundscaping in workplaces. But we also do a lot of work in soundscaping for health care and also education schools as well. Yeah.

Trista (02:27.184)
and health care little, you know, places where you go to the doctor and things like

Fran (02:35.215)
Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Lots of mixed use spaces where we have lots of different people trying to do different things.

Trista (02:37.131)
Cool, Yes. If you weren't with Moodsonic, what would be your ultimate dream job? Using what you're doing.

Fran (02:48.753)
Ooh, I'm not qualified in any way, but I love film music. And being, think being a film music composer is so cool. You've still got that element of like sight and sound coming together. But it's just something like I love listening to so much is film music and like listening to all the techniques they're doing in

Trista (03:05.638)
Yeah, it's, it's really interesting. I don't know if you've ever seen this. The show, Friends, it was Friends. They have a study of what it looks like and sounds like and feels like without a laugh track or music behind it. And it comes off very depressing and kind of like just existential, like, what does that mean? So I think sound plays

such an important part in our lives and we don't even realize it until it's not there.

Fran (03:41.417)
100%. Couldn't agree more.

Trista (03:45.376)
Very cool. So can you talk a little bit about Moodsonic and what they do and what you do there?

Fran (03:53.609)
Sure. Yeah, so Moonsonic is all about sound and designing people's sonic experiences in buildings. 


Fran (04:17.873)
So yeah, Moodsonic designs people's sonic experiences in buildings. If you think about, you know, buildings and designing them, often sound isn't necessarily top of the agenda in terms of, you know, the list of priorities. And soundscaping is more than just acoustics or noise mitigation. Soundscaping is all about bringing designed positive

thoughtful scientific sound actually into buildings. So it's not just about minimizing noise and minimizing sound, it's about bringing design sound in, which is kind of what sets it apart from things like acoustics and other areas that people might be familiar with.

Trista (05:01.002)
So in these soundscapes, these, these are like sounds of nature sometimes, or are they other things, and do people realize they're hearing them?

Fran (05:14.119)
Yeah, good question. Yeah, the majority of what we do orientates around nature sound. Yes. So the majority of the sounds that we're bringing into these buildings are nature sound based. The reason for that is that people feel best in nature. You know, there's so much research and also people just kind of feel it themselves. You you might be familiar yourself with, you know, spaces that really make you feel calm and relaxed and a lot of them will probably be outdoors. So people have known for

millennia, literally, that nature is really good for people. And more recently, there's been a lot of scientific research around this, you know, how, how nature makes us feel good, what types of nature and elements of nature might make us feel good. So yeah, a lot of the sound that we're bringing in is nature sound based. There's been a trend, I guess, in the last couple of decades in architecture and interior design for

biophilic design. So that is kind of creating a connection to nature indoors. And it's something that a lot of people are familiar with now. But again, it tends to be approached from more of a visual standpoint. You know, maybe it's thinking about light or plants or things that people see, materials, textures, patterns. And actually what the research shows is that we can do that same approach, that same biophilic approach, but using sound as well. And that can bring about some huge benefits by connecting people with the outside world.

using the sounds of nature indoors in a very thoughtful way, in an intelligent way, but we can create some really great health benefits using biophilic design, but through the sense of hearing, through sound.

Trista (06:56.55)
you do your recording? Does somebody go to the Amazon rainforest with a big boom mic and record the sounds of nature around them? I mean, I've been to Costa Rica recently and that was amazing and I felt very calm and very at peace. So how do you get those recordings?

Fran (07:02.795)
Hahaha

Fran (07:15.185)
It's a mix really, unfortunately, I'm not the one that's in Costa Rica with the microphone, but yeah, there are some people that doing that. The way that the soundscapes are created is really interesting in that we're not using, we're referencing a library of nature sounds, right? So we have this kind of huge, huge database of nature sounds that we're using in these buildings, but we're not using just a straight recording. We're not just kind of, you know, broadcasting nature sound into people's buildings because

You could probably imagine how frustrating and irritating that can be after a while. When we very first started out with Moodsonic, we tried playing some loops of nature sound recordings into buildings. And some of these loops were a week long. So we're not just talking a couple of hours, literally a week long. And people noticed that they were listening to a loop. Not everyone, but people that were more sensitive. Yeah. Yeah. So.

Trista (08:05.992)
I saw that on your website.

Trista (08:10.654)
Like, I just heard this howler monkey.

Fran (08:13.381)
Exactly. It's like Thursday 1pm, the Hallow Monkey's there. it can, when you're introducing soundscaping into a building, there are certain ways you have to go about doing it very sensitively, doing it very thoughtfully, doing it in an intelligent way, rather than just broadcasting it in. Because if you do that, you'll create more problems than you solve, basically. so yeah, we have some people out there recording sounds, but also we're not just playing those recordings in, we're making sure that they're delivered.

in a very thoughtful way throughout the building.

Trista (08:46.602)
Do you mix sounds together so it wouldn't just be straight nature sounds or is it like layered or the sounds layered on each other to create more

Fran (08:57.799)
Yes, they are layered, yes. They are delivered in stereo. So for example, it creates a of a sense of reality in the space, a slight kind of 3D -ness to the sound. But yes, then they are also layered. And the cool thing about the fact that they're layered means that those layers can change their levels at different times of day or in response to what's happening in that space.

So for example, if something happens in the space, means that a certain layer, you know, it's best for that layer to recede into the background. Then the system can kind of automatically adjust those layers and adjust the, just what's happening in the whole content of the soundscape as well. So yeah, it's, there's a lot of thought gone into it.

Trista (09:39.632)
Yeah, that's fascinating. And is that done with, I know the big buzzword, AI? So is it responsive to what's going on in the environment that it'll just recede and alter itself?

Fran (09:57.531)
It is. Yeah. Yeah. It's responding in real time to the environment. mean, AI, I'm not an AI specialist, so I won't, I won't talk about it too much because there's other people out there who could. But, yes, essentially, yes, I get it. I mean, it is intelligent. mean, in the future, there's so much more we can be doing obviously with the AI technology that's coming out nowadays. But yeah, it's responding in real time. We, we can respond to noise sensors that we have in the space. So for example,


Fran (10:27.761)
Imagine we had a really quiet office space. People were just doing heads down focus work. And we might not necessarily need to introduce a ton of nature sound because it's already quite a nice space. It's already kind of quiet, but not too quiet. And people can work. Maybe we just have some lapping lake waves that happen in the background, really, really quietly, really ambient. What we can then do with this responsive system is if someone starts up a conversation, for example, it's really distracting.

and that's capturing everyone's attention while they're trying to focus, the system can pick up on that and it can introduce a layer of sound that will essentially mask that conversation, make it less distracting. It'd probably be the sound of a babbling brick or some kind of running water sound that the system can introduce to make that distraction less apparent. And then when the conversation recedes, that layer of masking sound can also recede away and we go back to the nicer lake waves. So that's just one example of how it might...

respond to what's happening in the space in like a, practical way. But we can also do cool things with, you know, if they have circadian lighting in the space, we might want to link the two up and have one respond to the other and things like that. So there's also a ton of like creative options as well, when it comes to the responsiveness.

Trista (11:39.614)
Right. I'll throw in some plants and everyone's just going to be working at optimum levels.

Fran (11:47.321)
Exactly. That's what we like. Yeah, a lot of this work we've done has shown that this nature -based soundscaping can be really beneficial in any space, but particularly in a space where there's already other elements of nature and biofuglia. So if we're kind of giving people a really natural, healthy experience, but in all the senses, then it amplifies how healthy that is for people and how effective it is in helping them work and relax and things like

Trista (12:13.064)
Right? And this isn't just, just want to point out that this isn't just antidote based. This is very science, based in science. There's been studies that, you know, if there are, if there is biophilic elements, people will be more creative. They'll be more productive. Well -being will go up. So that means less stress. That means more, you know, improved workplace experience, which is kind of, I think, what we're all looking for.

Right now is we're trying to get people to come back to the office and be happy working in an office at least some days of the

Fran (12:50.343)
Yeah, absolutely. everything we do is based in science. You know, I have my scientific background, so I'm always very keen to integrate that into the work we do. it's also, I mean, there's been peer -reviewed academic research out there for decades about the benefits of nature and also specifically about the benefits of natural sound. I mean, like you say, it can help with physical wellbeing, mental wellbeing. It can help us feel better. It can

physical symptoms of stress, things like heart rate, cortisol, breathing. So it helps us feel better and it also helps us work better as well. Research shows that the most productive sound that people can hear is actually the sounds of nature. Often people assume that silence is kind of the optimum sound for productivity, but actually nature sounds beats silence in terms of the academic research.

And then, because I think because we're doing, what we're doing is quite, it's quite different. And so often a lot of the time our clients are keen to bring in research teams and, you know, test, test what we're doing, seeing what benefit it has on people. And yeah, they've found some really amazing results in terms of people's productivity and how well they feel. And yeah, like you say, just creating, creating the experience that goes beyond what people might have access to at home as well.

this kind of responsive, really healthy environment where people can get their work done better than they might do at home.

Trista (14:22.282)
What would a perfect, the optimum place for a workplace environment, like say an office. I was reading that it should be, like that sweet spot is 50 decibels. Because even if it's below, like you said, complete silence, that's still like very distracting and very, you know, a sound will be made and, you know, that's just as startling as a very loud sound. So

What would be an optimum workplace? then following that, just thought of another question would be, you go into like, if you're going into a hospital versus a classroom versus an office building, do you kind of design it for that specific space?

Fran (15:13.265)
Yeah, great question. So I'll start by talking about like the optimum sound. One cliche, which is kind of hard to avoid when it comes to talking about this, is that there is no one size fits all. As much as it's a cliche, it's so true, particularly when it comes to sound, because people's responses can be different.

Fran (15:36.819)
think a couple of things to think about in terms of optimum soundscape in a building like a workplace. Yeah, the first would be not silent. Like you say, it actually creates a stress response in a lot of people because we associate it with a predator. If you would think about, know, evolutionarily, if we're in a forest and the birds suddenly stop singing, that makes us feel uneasy and it indicates that there's some kind of threat around. And also, as we've mentioned, silence

actually very distracting because if someone starts talking in a silent office, everyone within a huge radius can hear that conversation. So yeah, not silent would be one of the things in terms of optimum workplace sound. And another would be variety. Like I say, no one size fits all. Everyone responds to sound differently. And in places like hospitals and workplaces, we've typically got...

a whole host of different types of people and personalities and neurodiversities and abilities, all in one space, probably all trying to do quite different things as well. So it can be really a really complex type of environment to deal with. And so what we ideally want to do is create different characteristics in different areas. So some spaces might be more stimulating than others. Maybe it's for extroverts who want to collaborate. Other spaces are much quieter and calmer for people that want

get heads down work done, or maybe introverts who don't want to feel overly stimulated and want to relax. I'm generalizing here with these, but you get the sense of how lots of different types of people can respond to sound in different ways. So yeah, really looking for variety in terms of the characteristics and the types of activities that we might want to encourage. And then, just thinking about nature as well.

If you think about the types of sound that people typically hear in an office, it's all manmade, you know, it's conversations, it's maybe some construction or some machinery or some notifications. And a lot of those sounds are distracting and they're unhealthy. And a lot of people are deprived of natural sound and it's this, you know, amazing tool that can be so beneficial for everyone. And so, yeah, introducing.

Fran (17:58.149)
nature from a health benefit. So I guess essentially thinking about what sounds are going to be healthiest for people in those spaces. And a lot of the time it is natural sounds. And I've forgotten your second question.

Trista (18:10.332)
Yeah, love how you say, yeah, yeah, no, totally. I was just thinking about your comment of, you know, there is no one says one size fits all. And I think that that is so true when it comes to integrative facility management, including commercial cleaning. That's something that commercial cleaning companies battle with a lot because companies will have a, you know, provider and they'll come in and

treat every single building the same. Let's have all white noise. Or when we come in, we're going to clean, and it's going to be the same regimen. But you just can't do that. Every single building has its own needs, just like a person. So you cannot have a one size fits all. So I love how you said that. And it takes more.

Fran (18:59.739)
Mm hmm. hmm. Totally.

Trista (19:08.114)
introspection and knowledge and research to figure out what each building needs. we have to take the more we take time to do that, the more we'll have the ability to make people's experiences a lot better at the workplace.

Fran (19:22.771)
Totally, totally. Yeah, so much of what we do is about just being thoughtful and kind of intelligent in the way that we're applying these ideas. You know, just because the science shows that people benefit from nature sound doesn't mean that you can just put it everywhere. And, know, there's a lot more thought and technology that has to be going on behind the scenes as well to kind of to pull it off, basically.

Trista (19:43.594)
Yeah. How do you introduce some of these soundscapes into a building? Is there a lot of change management that has to take place when you go in and you're introducing this idea of layered sounds? what does that look like when you go in to start a project in a building?

Fran (20:09.991)
Yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, just for starters, like it's worth pointing out that the soundscaping is designed to be very ambient. So it's not that you walk in and you notice it straight away. Even if it was your first time in a building, you might only really notice it when you kind of listen out for it. Just like in the natural world where you might have a really, you know, some distant birdsong or some distant water, but it's, really not designed to be at a obvious or noticeable level. So that's something that we want to make sure is obviously set up from the outset.

but yes, change management is really, really crucial when it comes to soundscaping. as you, and I'm sure many of your listeners know, like change is so hard, even if it's, when it's positive change, you know, design for people's wellbeing and things like that, it's, we're still changing people's environments and their sensory surroundings. so yeah, it's change management is really crucial for soundscaping.

A lot of the ways that we manage this are from a communication standpoint. So making sure people understand why we're making this change, what it's there for, and crucially what people's options are as well. So we spoke about creating, you know, for example, a workplace where we have lots of different zones or areas with different characteristics. If people can understand, you know, okay, this zone is designed for focus, this one is designed for restoration, then they can have a bit of control and agency over the environment

choose the best spaces to go when they want to feel a certain way or do a certain thing. So that communication is really important from the outset and on an ongoing basis as well. Digital signage is our friend and it can add like a lot of benefit to the soundscaping experience generally. If we can say, you walk into a space and it tells you you're listening to these particular sounds and they're designed to do X, Y, Z.

then that's really powerful for people and it's simple, but it's really effective. And also we can actually give, in some circumstances, we can give people direct control of the sound that's in their space as well. If it's a smaller space like a wellbeing room or a meeting room, there's really easy ways for people to actually, you you have a wall mounted iPad, for example, and people can actually just choose, actually today I want to chill out, I'm going to listen to this soundscape in this room.

Fran (22:30.201)
So there's other ways that we can give people direct control over the soundscape. Obviously in large open working areas, not so much, but in those smaller spaces, people can even control it themselves. So yeah, all about giving people control.

Trista (22:42.474)
Yeah, I love that. I could see how that would work if you're having a fun, like you want to brainstorm or you're having a very collaborative and you want people to be active. And maybe it's 2 p when that slump hits at work, when you're like, I, you we've already eaten lunch. you know, I think that's really interesting to think that there are natural things that we can do instead of just drinking coffee or, you know.

with through sound to create more of a upbeat feeling for people to collaborate and work

Fran (23:19.985)
Yeah, so much of a, well, not so much. A lot of our content is designed around that 2pm slump. It's something that comes up so often. But yeah, sound is great for, sound can even trigger our circadian rhythms. So if you think about Birdsong and the Dawn Chorus in the mornings, those sounds can help us feel more awake, for example. So that might be a type of sound that we introduce around 2pm, just to help people kind of perk up and feel a bit more energetic than they might do after lunch.

Trista (23:49.448)
We really are still, we really are animals, aren't we? It's just, you know, talking to that, that old part of our brain that is still very much tapped in nature and the time you wake up in the time you go to sleep, you know, so I love that. think that that it's something so simple, but something so important.

Fran (24:07.815)
Yeah,

Fran (24:12.167)
Yeah, I mean, that's where all this really stems from. That's where Moonsonic stems from. That's where our responses to sound stem from is the fact that our ears, well, even to this day, but also particularly, you know, back in the day, our ears were so important for survival. And so we respond so powerfully to sound because it could, you know, it could have been the difference between life and death if we don't hear that predator or we can't find that fresh water, whatever it is. this is, you know, why designing a sound of buildings is so important.

because it has such a huge effect on people. And it's also why nature sound is particularly good for people is because of how we evolved, we associate these sounds with, we associate the birds singing with a lack of predators. So it helps us feel safe. We associate running water with cleanliness and freshness and fresh food and water. So it helps us feel comforted and things like this. So much of what we are doing now,

in the modern day with, you know, this technology harks back to how humans evolved and yeah, the fact that we are animals and we're still responding essentially in the same way, but we're now in these urban environments that are essentially kind of new areas for us to be in as humans, know, historically speaking, it's, it's our brains haven't kind of caught up and we're still, you know, back in our old natural brains.

Trista (25:31.39)
Kind of refreshing to know. Have you figured out what sound, like if you're working and doing your work, what sound you like

Fran (25:42.387)
Good question. We're quite lucky because obviously, you know, our whole team is always testing out these soundscapes. Even when I'm working from home, I have like a little mood sonic, like a mini mood sonic in my house. So, you know, my whole house actually has natural soundscapes in it, which is really cool. And I particularly love sound that matches what I can see, which a lot of people do actually. But for example, I'm in the middle of London, but I have quite a nice green garden.

And so I always have a lot of birdsong playing inside my house as well, because it kind of makes, I tried some, some, you know, ocean waves inside my house, but because I'm not by the beach, it kind of felt a bit strange. So I really enjoyed something that just enhanced what was already happening outside. So for me, it was like the birdsong and like the gentle stream and the, the wind blowing through the trees, rustling the leaves. That was kind of my, that's one of my, my favorites to listen to when I'm at home testing the soundscapes.

Trista (26:39.336)
That sounds lovely. And probably because I love waves. I love the ocean. But again, like you, I'm in Arizona, so we're very landlocked. There is not an ocean for miles and miles. But I personally find that sound very calming and pleasing, and it makes me very happy. So I'm wondering if something

Fran (26:41.981)
How about you? Do you have a favourite natural sound or place that you like to be kind of in nature?

Fran (26:57.491)
Mm hmm.

Trista (27:09.686)
with you, you're like, I know what's going on here because you work with, you know, this every day. So your brain's like, you're not tricking me. But if you put the birds on and the brooke, that's possible. That could happen here.

Fran (27:13.895)
Mm -mm.

Fran (27:26.277)
Yeah, that's an interesting theory. Yeah, it's funny because with our clients, it can kind of work both ways like it does with you and I. Some of them want to hear what's happening. They want a local sound that kind of roots that building in its surroundings that's kind of relevant to that space. Others actually want the opposite. If they were in a really rainy city, for example, they don't just want to hear the sound of rain. They actually want to hear the beach and they want to hear sunny sounds that take them away from that environment. it's interesting because it can work both ways.

One really cool thing we can do is also design the soundscaping bespoke to that building. kind of mirroring, for example, the surroundings or mirroring the interior design that's in that workplace. We just did this really beautiful office in India, which was, you the interior design was based around the Himalayas, the mountain regions. And, you you walked in and you could see kind of stone and clouds and they had these

forest lined corridors and they had loads of beautiful cultural references from the villages in the mountains. They had monsoon rooms and then you can just imagine how much more impactful that really beautiful design is when you match it with really specific soundscapes from the region. And actually you can see it in people's, we had one employee in that office who walked in and was almost in tears because they heard a certain insect in the office that they recognized as being from their region.

And they were like, this sound takes me, I think he was to my mother's porch, you know, and I'm sat on her porch and it's the evening and I just, you know, it makes me feel so comforted and so relaxed and all these things. it's amazing. Yeah. What people can pick up on in terms of like locality of sounds. and also just really cool what can be done in terms of, yeah, that multi -sensory element and linking the two together, what people see and what people hear bringing it all together with the soundscaping. That's one of my favorite.

things we have favorite

Trista (29:26.066)
What a beautiful example. I love that so much because there are certain insects in certain places that people, a lot of people here in the States, we have a cicada bloom going on this year where all the cicadas are coming out and they can be very loud. But I'm from Pennsylvania and now I'm in Arizona and when I hear a cicada, I'm like,

Fran (29:39.217)
Mm -hmm.

Fran (29:44.796)
Mm -hmm.

Trista (29:52.318)
this does not bother me. They are very loud, they are very strange, but I hear it and I'm unbothered. But other people are like, there's like a chainsaw. Like, it's and calming.

Fran (30:02.941)
Totally, totally, yes. Cicadas can be a contentious one, for sure. We do a lot of work in North America and one thing that's quite nice to do is kind of bring those sounds. There are some spaces where people are going to be much more sensitive to the sounds that we bring in. So for example, in a focus area, Cicadas, birdsong, going to distract people a little bit too much because it's something that's more out of the ordinary and a bit more specific.

Trista (30:07.497)
Ha ha

Fran (30:30.505)
but in, for example, a corridor or reception area or late at night, because these soundscapes are, you know, they're going 24 seven, they're circadian. Late at night can be a time when we can bring in sounds that like a little bit more, you know, we've got a few Easter eggs in there. For example, we have a soundscape where people are taken on a trip around an island. And then at nighttime, we've got kind of whales and, you know, all sorts of fun things that wouldn't necessarily be appropriate in the daytime or in certain areas. But yeah, there's definitely ways to bring in

those funner sounds as well that kind of, yeah, a bit more, a bit more noticeable, but also can have a certain like positive effect on people as well.

Trista (31:10.888)
i love that because the fact that you know our buildings don't shut down you know we have people in our buildings all the time and i'm not just thinking about hospitals and think about office buildings where we have you know there's a a janitorial crew are commercial cleaning crew or you know people working on the building there they're in there too and they are

Fran (31:27.144)
Mm -hmm.

Trista (31:35.048)
you know, affected by sound and plants and everything just as much as everybody else is. So I love hearing that, that it could, you know, at night it could be a little different and put a little Easter egg in there for them and, you know, make it, again, make it's all about experience and what that experience is like.

Fran (31:48.008)
Mm -hmm.

Fran (31:56.105)
Totally. Yeah, it's an interesting one at night time. kind of, I guess it kind of harks back to what we're talking about in terms of do we want to link people to their surroundings or do we want to take them away? know, at night time we can either create a sense of night time, we maybe have owls in there, or we can actually introduce those sounds that are going to make people feel more awake if they're actually having to work overnight. So it's, yeah, there's a lot of possibilities for sure.

Trista (32:19.026)
Yeah. Have you done any schools or education buildings and studies around, I'm just thinking children, because I think we're talking across the board about adults, but I'm thinking about children. Do they have the same response to the sounds? Or have you found that children and kids like different sounds?

Fran (32:43.879)
Yeah, good question. We've done some, I mean, so the majority of our work is in workplaces with adults, but we have done a couple of buildings in Asia Pacific that are schools and also a couple of university spaces as well. So we're kind of spanning a couple of different age groups there. Generally, can achieve the same kind of things with kids as we would with adults. So we can use those kind of focus sounds for kids that are trying to focus. We can use...

you know, sounds for creativity with those kids. there's actually quite a lot of overlap between the objectives that we might be looking at in workplace and also in schools. One thing that I quite like is, and that teachers have commented on in our school installations is more of like an active listening type of exercises that they can do. So you wouldn't necessarily have to do with adults in a workplace, hopefully, where say the kids are being disruptive or they're a bit hyper after lunchtime.

They might say, okay, stop and listen, like how many birds can you hear? Or like, they might play a specific meditation kind of based soundscape that's maybe some musical elements that might not be appropriate for working, but they can actually take the kids, yeah, they can actively listen to the soundscape and they can do exercises with them around the soundscape to, you know, help them out.

Trista (34:05.33)
Yeah, I would say probably as a transition from activity to activity, especially if they're coming back from lunch. My mom was a teacher, so they're coming back from thinking they're coming back from lunch, and there's a little bit of hyperactivity going on. It's like, let's listen to this. And so I love that example very much as a conscious active learning, active listening activity.

Fran (34:16.328)
Mm -hmm.

Fran (34:29.947)
Mm -hmm. Yeah, there's some interesting research as well around kids and kind of connections to the environment and how much they can learn about a natural environment when it comes to kind of adding sound in. So there was a piece of research, I may not be quoting this entirely accurately, but a piece of research around an exhibition at a zoo where when they introduce sound, the kids had a much greater understanding and a better memory of

you know, that environment that the animals are from rather than without the natural sounds. So it can also be used like from an educational perspective as well, which is interesting.

Trista (35:09.118)
you're just creating another layer of knowledge. And I think any context helps with learning. So if you give kids context with learning, they're going to learn more quicker.

Fran (35:13.638)
Exactly.

Fran (35:22.983)
Absolutely, yeah, exactly.

Trista (35:24.316)
I love that. Can you talk a little bit, talk to me a little bit about Moodsonic and, you get into some details and how it was founded and, you know, what your mission is and the ultimate goal of your company and where you're located. I know you're in England, but if you could talk a little bit about your company specifically.

Fran (35:49.865)
Sure. Yeah. So Moodsonic was founded only a couple of years ago, actually. We've just passed our second birthday, which is very exciting. Thank you. But many of us have been working in this field for, like I say, a number of years, decades, in fact. Moot Sonic, guess the reason it was founded is because noise is the number one complaint in shared buildings like workplaces and hospitals, and has been for many years.

Trista (35:58.679)
happy birthday.

Fran (36:19.729)
So it's obviously not a simple problem to solve. 
Yeah, noise has been the number one problem in offices and hospitals for a number of years. And the sound that people experience in those buildings changes everything about how they feel in those buildings. You know, it changes their behavior, it changes their physical health, their mental health, it changes their physiology. Sometimes just fleeting changes, but also, you know, long, long term changes for better or for worse, depending on what sounds they hear in those buildings. So

Sound in buildings is just so important. That's why we found a Moodsonic. And like I mentioned, there's all this research around the benefits of natural sound and what they can achieve when they're brought in intelligently into buildings in terms of people's wellbeing and productivity. And so I guess we've, for the first time, we're bringing those two things together into a product that is, you know, based, founded in technology and science, but is also scalable.

you know, rather than just doing one -off installations, we're working literally around the world. The majority of our work is in North America, Asia Pacific, and then here in Europe, where I'm based. The team is, well, have people around the world, but mainly London -centric. But like I said, we have clients all over the globe. And we're working predominantly in workplaces and also...

some work in healthcare environments and also education spaces as well. Yes.

Trista (38:08.84)
What is your role? Can you talk a little bit about your role and what you do?

Fran (38:13.161)
Sure. Yeah, I work, I'm marketing director at Moodsonic. But a lot of that also includes kind of the change management side of things and also the research side of things. So making sure that what we're doing is grounded in science, know, academically, but also, you know, helping our clients, you know, in a less academic way, you know, not in a peer reviewed research way, but making sure that they are understanding the impact that the soundscaping is having on their clients.

understanding the sound, sorry, understanding the impacts.

Trista (38:46.258)
Right. No, you're doing something that can be very difficult to understand to the lay person or somebody, or I'm thinking somebody in accounting or something. And how do you get them to understand you have to do a lot of education to bring out that here's the benefit that you're going to see through this product. I get that. Totally get that. I just don't want to be into marketing as well.

Fran (38:53.799)
Mm -mm.

Fran (39:12.821)
Absolutely, yeah. Absolutely, yeah. We also do quite a lot of training as well because, you know, like I mentioned, this is, know, it's a relatively new area and just helping people understand. We do a lot of training, for example, with architects and interior designers and facilities managers to help them understand what effects, you know, sound is having on people and yeah, how they might improve people's experiences as

Trista (39:38.228)
So the one question that I had, and this is something I merely thought of, have you noticed, I know you're a relatively newer company, but have you noticed any differences that, you know, everybody went home during the COVID pandemic and we were all working from home or we had our own areas and, you know, we could feel comfortable in our own environments and then people are coming back into the offices. So have you noticed anything new like,

Fran (39:53.053)
Mm -hmm.

Trista (40:08.252)
you know there are more people who are sensitive to sounds or there's definitely more of a market for this or a need for

Fran (40:17.223)
Yeah, we've absolutely noticed the difference. think one of the differences that you touched on just now is a greater sensitivity to the sound and to the noise in workplaces specifically. know, people have, not everyone, but a lot of people have gone home and found that actually they can work much better from home in terms of fewer distractions. And then they come back into the office and those distractions that were always there are much more prominent because they've had, they've been in this nicer environment essentially for a year or two. So yeah, people have

are more sensitive to the noise and to the problem that has existed for decades. And then obviously there is, well, a couple of things. There's also now a much greater and necessary focus on quality of experience, creating experiences that people can't get when they're at home, improving the quality all around in workplaces. so soundscaping fits nicely into that because people might be downsizing in terms of their real estate, but they want to make sure that those experiences are,

top notch. And so giving people a healthy experience in all the senses is a big part of that quality. And then also, soundscaping is really good from a flexibility perspective. You know, there's so much stuff now in terms of, you know, modular furniture and flexible spaces. And with soundscaping, you can literally click a button and transform the entire, you

ambiance or atmosphere in a space with a click of the button, literally, you you can turn it from a stimulating jungle soundscape to a relaxing meditative one. And, you know, it doesn't require any moving walls or moving furniture. But if people are having, you know, if people are downsizing in terms of real estate, then soundscape is a nice way of bringing extra flexibility to a space and being able to repurpose a space in that way.


Fran (42:41.685)
good question. I guess we, yeah, we spoke about change management. Maybe one thing that's kind of useful facilities for facilities managers in particular to think about is the journey that some people go on when soundscaping is introduced. because there can often be a kind of, not for everyone, some people will adapt straight away to the soundscaping and they, you know, maybe they barely even notice it, but for other people who are more sensitive.

there might be a kind of period of habituation during a soundscaping installation that can be just useful for facilities managers to know about and be able to manage. And it's just a case of getting used to it. so I think, you know, facilities managers play such an important role in soundscaping for us and making sure that soundscaping is successful for the employees and for the company. so, yeah, having them on the ground, being able to communicate with people.

collect feedback, make tiny changes to the system and things like that. It's really, really crucial to the success of soundscaping facilities managers and those kind of local champions that we have.

Trista (43:48.904)
Yeah, so that's how facility managers can support this endeavor because they should be aware of it and be able to have a conversation about it and adapt and change to what the place requires.

Fran (43:54.971)
Exactly.

Fran (44:07.037)
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Anything else? can't think of anything else. Is there anything else? Let me just check through the questions that you guys sent. Did I, do you think I explained well enough what soundscaping actually, sorry. Do you think, I'm sorry. I was going to say, do you think I explained well enough what soundscaping actually is? Or should like, should I, I'm just thinking for someone.


Fran (44:36.326)
Like you say, when it's a completely new subject for people, know, want to make sure that people understand what it actually is.

Trista (44:42.258)
Yeah. Yeah. Well, let's start there. Fran, what is soundscaping?

Fran (44:50.551)
Let me just think about my answer.

Trista (44:52.426)
Hahaha

Fran (45:01.478)
Okay, yeah, would you mind asking me again? Thank

Trista (45:05.702)
Of course. Fran, can you explain a little bit about what soundscaping is and what that means to a typical person?

Fran (45:14.857)
Sure. So soundscaping is the act of actually bringing in design sound into a space, like a workspace or a hospital. Traditionally, when it comes to those buildings, it's been a huge focus on trying to reduce noise, often rightly, because a lot of the noise that you might hear in those spaces might be distracting or create stress for people.

But actually, silence isn't what we're aiming for in those spaces. Silence isn't necessarily healthy for people. It's not necessarily productive sound. It can actually be quite unnerving for people. And so soundscaping is kind of counterintuitive for a lot of people who might have just been focusing on reducing noise and mitigating noise. Because there's so many beneficial sounds that we can bring in into a space, that we can design into a space just like you would the visual design of a space. And with soundscaping, you have that ability. You

design someone's sonic experience throughout a building, know, you design their journey from, from space to space and you can bring in sounds that are beneficial to their health and beneficial to their wellbeing.

Trista (46:20.766)
Fantastic, I love that. It took me on a journey. It actually, I kept thinking about a place like Disney World or a place that's very immersive. And I think a lot of malls now use soundscaping as well as definitely Disney, who has pioneered just about everything from an experiential standpoint. As you move from the land to the land, the different places, there are different sounds that...

Fran (46:29.671)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Trista (46:50.302)
sound like whatever place you're supposed to be in. yeah, definitely interesting and beneficial from a wellness standpoint, for

Fran (47:02.375)
Yeah, that's a really interesting comparison because you can, obviously we don't want the workplace to sound like Disney, but you can see some of those, I guess, like those design techniques in terms of creating more immersive environments coming through from, yeah, potentially, you know, theme parks and places into the workplace where people are thinking much more of a multi -sensory experiential way. So yeah, there's definitely some slight crossover.